Posts by Marvin Shilmer

43

Atheism

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

recent events and book reads (one suggested by cofty i believe- thank you) have lead me to the only logical and acceptable conclusion:.

there is no god.. simple logical reasoning: matter can neither me created or destroyed.

so the amount of mass in the universe is constant.

Marvin Shilmer

the only logical and acceptable conclusion: there is no God.

As a lover of rational thought I'm compelled to assert the above is an unsound conclusion, logically speaking.

Religionists can assert the existence of god, and we can accordingly ask religionists to prove their assertion true. If they fail to offer verifiable evidence we can conclude their assertion is unsound. But lack of evidence there is a god does not mean there is no god, and lack of evidence there is a god is not evidence affirming there is no god. Lack of evidence there is a god only means the existence of god is unproven.

There is so much we don't know about our own universe, not to mention whatever extra-universe there could be.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

Does someone have a quote of Jesus supporting homosexuality? He defined marriage as between a man and a woman. He had lots of opportunity to speak against bigotry but he didn't.

When it comes to gender and sexuality there is a great deal left unsaid in the Bible.The world lived in by biblical characters was way more complex than simple male and female gender and heterosexuality. For instance, what was an ancient born with ambiguous genitalia supposed to do with a biblical text advising about males doing something obscene with males?

Moreover, and as you seem to suggest, the biblical depiction of Jesus does not have him advocating for civil rights in general. Best I can tell, the biblical Jesus wanted followers who would follow him on his terms. Then in the post-Jesus era someone named Saul came along who had a name change to Paul, and this man changed the face of Jesus followers.

Edited to add: Probably the most common sexual practice among humans is masturbation. Yet the Bible is totally silent about it.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

I did tell you simply ask. I didn't however, avoid anything. "Simply asking" doesn't mean re-asking the same poorly worded question that doesn't make sense over and over.

Viviane,

I asked the question I asked in order to know your position on what I asked about. If I had wanted to know your position about something else I'd have asked a different question. I can't help it if you don't like the question, or if you don't want to answer what is asked. That's your problem. Not mine.

By now it's apparent you don't want to answer questions. You've made every excuse imaginable in this discussion to avoid answering, and this despite advising participants if they want to know your position on something then they simply need to ask.

Finally, saying a question is stupid or poorly worded does not answer the question asked. It is, rather, no more than a personal assertion, otherwise known as an opinion. Fine. I'm glad you have one, and that you're willing to share it. I don't mind you sharing your personal opinion about the question asked, so long as you answer the question for what is actually asks at face value. Alternately, we always have the option to refuse answering questions. This tells readers something as well.

67

How do you feel about religion as a whole?

by FatherFirst in

it just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.

just curious, a personal poll if you will.

what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?

Marvin Shilmer

When I ponder religion I end up seeing two things: religion and worship.

Worship is a broad concept that is, as I see it, how a person chooses to live their life.

Religion is something else altogether. To me religion is business.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

Viviane,

Your style of communication is why I posed a question to you in the first place. You accuse, you complain, you distort, and worst of all you avoid. I don't understand why anyone does any of these things. When someone has a question of me that is remotely relevant they ask and I answer. That's how it should be.

As recent as a few minutes ago you said if I wanted to know your position then I should simply ask. So I asked your position of something and you respond by avoiding.

If someone wants to know my position by asking me a question I don't get to frame the question.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

You would think the president of the United States could invoke some sort of constitutional rules or laws into effect to prevent the Indiana Governor " Dickhead " to not be able to pass such prejudiced laws.

I think this is the job of the Federal Judiciary and it will probably come to that, and from what I can tell the issue is not central to Indiana or Indiana's Governor. It looks to me like the issue as stake has come about from legislative actions crossing Democratic and Republican parties and over a period of several years.

Out here in California there has been some jerk off attorney trying to get passed in legislation to " kill gays and lesbians ".

I heard about that but have not followed the story. Whoever is behind this thing must be a bona fide kook of the first order!!!

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

As I've said, if you want to know my position, simply ask.

Okay. What is your position on a Miss White USA pageant? Is this a fine thing or should courts assert punitive measures to cause such discrimination based on race to cease?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

Our “free” market system would simply not exist as we know it without the presence of an active government that creates and maintains the rules and conditions that allow it to operate efficiently.

That's so true. To your list of libertarians, radical right-wing politicians, separatists and religious fanatics I'd add radical left-wing politicians. I think the person who says "Government built that" is just as goofball as the one who says "Private business built that". The reality is both built "that". It's not always pretty, but it take both working on concert to build the things we see around us in a free market commercial system.

12

Patient dies as JW paramedic refuses to administer blood product -- thanks, Religious Freedom Act!

by FatFreek 2005 in

(i realize this topic may have already been addressed so i apologize in advance.).

no, that's not a real headline but i suppose it could be one here in arkansas -- one of several states in the us that has a religious freedom law on their books.. as i understand it, if i, as a jw paramedic, am ordered to deliver a blood product to my patient, i can refuse to do so based on my religious freedom.

as a logical consequence, a patient could die.. would paramedic be an occupation be that one of jehovah's witnesses simply cannot accept, knowing fully well that you would be in a likely position to administer blood..

Marvin Shilmer

There is absolutely no Watchtower ban on JW health professionals preparing and/or administering medical treatment blood.

That's 100 percent correct with one exception. Watchtower's blood doctrine forbids JW healthcare providers from administering blood transfusions to JWs.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

I never suggested any moral or ethical attributes. You were reading that into what I wrote.

As I said already, it was your use of broad language to describe something narrower. I only mentioned moral and ethic perspectives to illustrate why I objected to your language toward what I wrote.

As I said, if you want to know the answer to THAT question, simply ask it. There is no need to ask a different question and attempt to derive my position.

My reason for asking you the question I did was to test your position for whatever it is. Even now you opt to avoid answering such a simple question, which is telling by itself.